Open cross concludes. Legal teams for bin Atash and Mohammad are deferring exam of Gaudin. Next hearing scheduled to begin 4 May, hopefully with NGOs. Tune in then!

Pat D'Amuro told Gaudin no one from the FBI would return to Location 3 following this meeting.

Eventually FBI did detail personnel to the CIA to work at black sites.

Gaudin has been very careful to avoid using certain words like torture or naming specific enhanced interrogation techniques but says could have meant a lot of things.

Gaudin testified on the July 1st 2002 meeting at Langley -- discussions on how to move forward with Abu Zubaydah's treatment. James Mitchell pushed for more pressure to reduce his capacity to resist.

Post-lunch update on NGO access: Pros Trivett said OMC completed the NGO policy this week, ready for signing but signatory is on leave until next week. Judge orders government to provide weekly updates until issue is resolved. @peacefultomorrows.bsky.social

Gaudin described Soufan's departure as personal -- he was engaged to be married. He didn't leave in opposition to Zubaydah's treatment. "If he remembers differently, I disagree with my brother."

Gaudin described telling Soufan they were thrown into this mess and had to do their best.

On Ali Soufan, Gaudin says he loves him like a brother but that doesn't mean he agrees with everything his brother does. Soufan wasn't happy not being in charge and threatened leaving many times before he did.

Gaudin said he found comfort in knowing of the videorecording -- the box wouldn't be used...how bad could it get?

He wishes the tapes hadn't been destroyed.

Regarding the videotaping of interrogations, Gaudin says he initially didn't know but later saw behavioral psychologists reviewing the videos and writing reports determining the truthfulness of Zubaydah.

When asked about the noise in Location 3, Gaudin says muffling sounds were necessary since you could hear people talking in the room next to the cell. He may have provided the Red Hot Chili Peppers cd that was played.

Gaudin says he was 'pulled out' after getting the massive piece of intel -- that is who the mastermind of 9/11 was. He says he never stopped worrying after that.

Gaudin testified Zubaydah wasn't put in the box while he was there and didn't know what happened after he left. Was aware he was treated differently after the Washington meeting.

Gaudin described seeing a box -- something he was familiar with from SERE school. Zubaydah asked him about it -- Gaudin believed there was no way the detainee would go in the box because it wasn't on the DoJ list and he wasn't medically fit for it. Zubaydah later drew about his box experience.

As Zubaydah's condition improved, he was allowed less sleep. Gaudin was reluctant to classify the situation as 'sleep deprivation' and twice recalled how little he was getting himself.

Gaudin testified he was shown a DoJ letter explaining limits on temperature, and lengths of interviews, which made him feel less concerned about what he was witnessing. Zubaydah was still medically recovering so Gaudin says his condition was the main concern.

Gaudin and Soufan were no longer the interviewing team -- each were paired with a CIA counterpart.

The CIA interrogator went in with just one question -- "You know why I'm here. All I want is one thing and that's all we're going to talk about." Gaudin described it as odd.

Mitchell had Soufan and Gaudin introduce the 'new boss' to Zubaydah. Mitchell played a more instructive role at that time and wasn't interrogating Zubaydah.

Gaudin told Mitchell things were actually fine and what Zubaydah actually needed was a softer pillow and more chocolate ice cream.

Mitchell accused Zubaydah of giving 'throw away' answers. The new focus would be on diminishing Zubaydah's capacity to resist -- words Gaudin was familiar with from SERE school.

Gaudin says he first met James Mitchell at the hospital. He didn't know Mitchell was a doctor at the time. Mitchell told Gaudin they would be taking a new direction with Abu Zubaydah.

He described the room as transformed to look like a jail cell -- bars added to one wall, and long curtains so the barred off section was separate from the rest of the room. They had also painted it similar to the color of a manilla envelope. It was still furnished with a hospital gurney and chairs.

Gaudin's testimony continued. He shared Location 3 changed after he returned from the hospital -- one room was altered, unrecognizable.

Maj Leahy reaches back to the question of who is actually controlling the courtroom.

Schrama: You elicited the same information the other day, is that right?

Trivett: Yes, but I should have stopped.

Regarding the hockey light going off, Pradhan explained this is an example of the intrusive and ever-changing rules of the commissions. Judge Schrama also doesn't understand.

Hockey light went off during discussions of a ‘Scott’ who was on the list of declassified CIA personnel. Gaudin couldn’t recall his surname.

Though Gaudin was convinced of his identity, others in the community were still skeptical that he was THE Abu Zubaydah.

He then went on to detail the medical care Abu Zubaydah received at Loc 3, and the emergency that sent Zubaydah to the hospital for about 1-2 weeks. Zubaydah was intubated and had surgery. Gaudin held his hand and kept him company